“If someone quotes a grand and we're quoting five, they think they'll get the same thing. So the biggest challenge for us is showcasing why that isn't the case, and why spending a bit more money matters.”

From aspiring actors to professional filmmakers

Joe

Dan and I met at college when we studied to be actors. We went to university to do acting, and then during our second year we were living together, and we thought, "Let's see what it's like to make a short film," because we were big into filmmaking at the time.

We made the short, and whilst it was the most stressful we've ever been, it was also the most fun we've had working together. When we left uni, we thought, "Let's set up a business." We taught ourselves film, and we taught ourselves business.

We started to find a little bit of footing, doing a few corporate videos, and then lockdown hit, which was obviously bad for a lot of people. Still, looking back, it was probably the most important thing that ever happened to us, because we used that time to change it from a hobby into a business.

Our big move was to develop a new website, work every single day through lockdown, and then come out ranking first on Google. So, when everything came back, we were there straight away; people would reach out to us first.

From that moment, we just grew year on year. We made our first hire about a year after that, then our second, then our third. We've consistently grown every year since.

It’s not just a video – creating real value

Joe

We're not the cheapest company to work with, and we don't want to be.

We want to be premium, so when people use us, it doesn't feel like a transaction; it’s a proper process, like a bit of a journey for them. That might sound a bit "out there," but it's true.

The challenge with that is trying to convince people that a video isn't just a video. If someone quotes a grand and we're quoting five, they think they'll get the same thing. So, the biggest challenge for us is showcasing why that isn't the case and why spending a bit more money matters. Because, with us, you’re getting video content with a strategy and objective, and that generates so much more value. I’m not saying buying cheaper doesn't work, but spending more sometimes matters.

Making sense of the numbers, and taming cash flow

Dan

Cash flow has always been a thing for us, because our projects tend to be one-offs. Up until recently we haven't really been retainer-focused; it's been a case of winning, say, a five-grand project, doing that over three or four months, and then finding more work straight off the back of it.

For a long time, it's been a very spiky cash flow. We'd win a major project, be all-in on that, forget the sales, and then be straight back at square one. It was constantly fluctuating.

What we're trying to do now, after good advice from our accountants, is build in annual retainers that last throughout the year. We’re thinking about how we can win fewer clients but do more work with each client individually.

“Most videographers live and breathe the filming. We like it, but we know we can't grow a business if we're fixated on it. So we bring in people who can do it better than us.”

Why friendship comes first

Joe

We're still mates after all this time. That's a big achievement, God knows how!

Joking aside, doing this with Dan is the big thing for me. I couldn't do this business on my own. It wouldn't last a week. I need him. He's the best part of it. On the really tough days, knowing my best mate is there, that we can go out of the business, go for a drink, and not talk about work. That's the most important part.

We've always said our friendship comes first over the business, and we've always stuck by that.

Another personal one for me is the freedom the business has given me. My partner lives in Spain, so what's great is I can work anywhere I want. That flexibility has been a big personal win.

Turning a passion into a proper business

Dan

For me, it's the cliché of turning your passion into a business you run every day. It's been great to make something out of it, when a lot of people go in and do it as a job or a career without ever building something bigger.

I never would have thought we'd get as far as we've got. I also think working with some really cool brands over the last couple of years has been a big win.

A big one for me was Mondelez International last year. We shot at their old Sheffield Basset’s factory, which was really good fun. We've also worked with loads of big clients like Westfield Health, the Cabinet Office and the NHS.

When you first start, you think they’re never going to work with two guys just starting out, so getting to a place where they come to us is a really big achievement.

“I couldn't do this business on my own. It wouldn't last a week. I need Dan. He's the best part of it.”

Letting go of the camera: Trusting our people

Joe

I think we're moving away from something most videographers get fixated on. Most tend to live and breathe the creativity, live and breathe the filmmaking. Whereas Dan and I are slowly moving away from that being our full-time focus. That’s how we got started, but we know we can't grow a business if it’s all we're fixated on. So, we bring in people who love the creative and can do it better than us!

Sweet Jars, Cadbury and a Proper Team Effort

Dan

Mondelez was a really fun project, because half of it was literally filming sweets in a sweet shop, filming everything from Sour Patch Kids, Wine Gums, Trebor Strong Mints and the like.

They wanted a brand film that reflected what their team had achieved over the last year, celebrating the progress in the factory. We did sofa interviews, got some funny soundbites, filmed inside the factory, and talked a bit about the history too.

It was a proper production. With that one, we got all our guys involved in the pre-production, brought our ideas together, and it was a proper team effort by the end of it.

The client who never forces a narrative

Joe

My favourite is a recurring client of ours called Salad Money, an ethical lending company in London. What I like about that project is they do a lot of case studies across the UK. We go into people's homes and interview them about their credit, why they wanted to lend, their credit scores, and how that's impacted their lives.

What's nice is that, normally, when we deal with companies like that, they push a narrative onto the interview, whereas with Salad, whatever the person says, they want to include it. There are no leading questions.

We've been working with them for about four years. I love travelling for work and meeting different people, so I love doing those projects.

Adapt or Get Left Behind: Thoughts on AI

Joe

We love AI. A lot of creators hate it, for very good reason, but we've adapted to it massively. We use it a lot to get rid of mundane tasks like admin and emails.

We don't use it to replace any of the creativity. It saves time on repetitive tasks, so the team has more time and budget to be more creative, which unlocks a lot for them.

A lot of people ask if we're worried about it, but I'm not, because people are starting to really detest obvious AI. There are a lot of AI ads out there, and the comments from people are pretty shocking.

A few movies are coming out at the moment with AI, and people are trashing it purely because it used AI rather than artists.

Because of that, we're getting a lot more enquiries to do actual interviews with real people, to prove these people are real.

I don't think it's going anywhere. So, we either adapt to it, or we ignore it and don't improve, and then some younger business comes along who adapts and progresses further. I always think the companies that use cheap AI imagery or video would never have paid for proper work anyway.

Why Gravitate feels different

"It feels like we're actually dealing with two people, not just in-and-out with whoever's next. You care about what you're doing, and you actually take the time to look at our books and get a real understanding of who we are."

Dan

We've really enjoyed working with Gravitate over the last few years, having these regular meetups, checking in, touching base, and seeing where things are at financially.

It's been great to build a rapport with Tom and Leo, and a working relationship where I feel confident and trust them with what they bring to every meeting.

Compared to our previous accountant, it feels like we're actually dealing with people, not just in and out with whoever's next. They care about what they're doing, and actually take the time to look at our books and get a real understanding of who we are as a business.

Joe

Gravitate feels fresh and modern. It doesn't feel like a stuffy accountancy firm, which is the big thing for me.

The two we used before were very traditional. We're not traditional people; we're creatives. What we've learned in business is that we only like doing business with people we actually get on with personally.

If we don't get on with them personally, we don't tend to work with them, no matter how good they are. We always get on with the Gravitate team personally, which really helps.

Open House Pictures

“Sometimes with production companies it's just one guy who outsources to freelancers when he needs a bigger crew, but we're fortunate that we've actually got a team in-house that does it all.”